Speaker 1: This time in conversation with entrepreneur, coach and waterballer Jakob Drachenberg. Become a podcast buddy and get exclusive access to new podcast episodes. You can on my website schulze.com.de Welcome to this podcast.

Speaker 1: Get the insights.

Speaker 1: Yes, but the spiral you mentioned earlier, the one on and on another game, another win, another title or something. At some point it's over. Every spiral has an end. That's point where you it sooner or later. That you have to think how to get to the next step. Next higher level. So what can I change or adapt without bending myself or reinventing the whole business? But how do I get to the next level, although this spiral is maybe at end? And now you said the beginning that there was a phase where you said, it didn't that well. Did it also something with this spiral? Or did it completely different reasons So, to be since 2012 was the first depressive episode. It was a tough time, I myself or a team. I over my captain's office, I took from and my job, and I with psychotherapy. It four or five months. And if this was the only phase, I would have said, yo, we have to see what the performance sport does, but it wasn't. I've four depressive episodes now, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, all with really hard cuts and really deep illness, as far as I into psychiatry in the And I didn't waterball That means you can't say now, oh, yes, it the big bad waterball. I see what the accompanying stages are. end, long story short, I just a vulnerability for I'm a bit vulnerable to depressive episodes. Of course, I out few where I think, okay, I can work That's totally logical, on hand. On the other hand, you don't always And then you to prepare like a diabetic who has to insulin, or someone who

Speaker 2: migraine hat, dass man den Umgang damit lernt. Und da habe ich jetzt ein bisschen in den Modus geschaltet. Das gehört zu mir. Das ist so Teil meiner Story. Und natürlich sind die Themen Perfektionismus und Liebe ist Gleichleistung und ständige Progression und der Luxus von heute ist der Standard von morgen und dieses schwarz-weiß-denken so Tor oder Nicht-Tor, Sieg und eine Niederlage sind natürlich Treiber, wenn man da verantwortlich ist am Ende. Exactly, I think the topics. But that was also pretty crazy, because everyone in the competitive world or in the water sports world is just very empathetic with the way they So I didn't expect that and I think it the same the first time And it was the And can everyone that. So totally human, totally forward, totally careful in positive sense. Because for an injured person, depression is crazy, strange and crazy. The other person can't appreciate because you can't into their heads. These the drivers. in I said, the competitive sport, if you the topic completely and into extremes, will be a period Because if you your limit and keep over the borders... then your system will you to stop. Performance is a mantra. If you can't you to keep because that's training. And if you're you'll always cross the even if it's your own needs. You might even get little sick from training. You'll that you're mentally exhausted, you'll keep with pressure, tension and intensity. And that's I was allowed learn, and I think the solution. On the one hand, see when the intensity, pressure, and effort are positive. can't, I'm very good at And when do I need more calmness, calmness, overview, trust and also to get of this importance. Because in performance sports, every day important theoretically. you have to train you have to here in strength training. The game is now important, the squad nomination thing is important. And if that overrides, then you because everything so important. Then you to sort again.

Speaker 2: If you both together, you have a good stress competence to feel it yourself. What do I Do I need stress or tension? Or I need relaxation and to importance? I don't mean that it's unimportant and that you lethargic. If the problem it's not the right but the pendulum in the middle. That was also my drive to with topic of healthy stress management completely, because I thought, what the fuck, I can learn that, that's a skill, how awesome. I just my thoughts. And then to realize, okay, you can excite then thought, so awesome, if I get really good at stress management now, then I'll never be depressed Yes, it didn't work out well in the end, but that's exactly the limit, like Cristiano Ronaldo, who can be disciplined. Physiotherapy, working motivated, doing to stay free But if he his knee, discipline, effort and motivation He to treated. That's I it now. Like mental breakdown, which has to with my own skills, but is a disease. The best surgeon in world can't operate his I a bit of a fool, I can work that, but think the way of is as relaxed and relaxed as ever. because I also want some clarification. Depression is simply a mental illness that affects lot people, and especially performance athletes who quit or are performance athletes are just feeling a little bit because is not much talk about it, logically, because it very tangible. But we want to a bit to So it's not a topic that nobody wants and that is totally a dark corner or something, or is not being At it always felt in the past. And I think the first time it came the plan, we only one, where we talking it, with Robert Encke here in Hannover.

Speaker 1: I like the whole city was under a cheese clock for because everyone was like a state and couldn't really grasp and understand it. That was the first moment where this topic was so prominently placed or came to the radar. And exactly what you said, that, I had already other participants here in podcast, with sports psychologists, who say, so many people see that. as a disadvantage or as something negative, or as something bad, which it actually isn't. At least in the context I talked namely the topic of sports psychology, to mentally for certain situations optimally. When it starts and the fifth comes, what I have to do, how I feel and how the feeling is. So to optimally, not only physically, but also mentally, perfect at this moment or at this race or this game. And that's nothing negative, but it's similar to training, swimming or tactics or whatever, a little bit. And that's nothing negative. Quite opposite, it's something positive. And so I had the feeling that many people work bit out of this niche. And that's what I have now. feeling is just a little bit, or what does a little bit It's clear. I because many as you say, are openly talking So it's not a taboo topic as it was I don't know how you see but this argument back then to say that it's nothing negative, which many people think, but rather, I can it positively, but I can positively mentally, my psyche, that this is an advantage or something beneficial if I know and do and nothing negative, which I think you.

Speaker 2: I think we have to two areas. On the one to I want to more better, more And then have psychotherapy, where it's really about diseases. One is performance optimization, and other is the prevention or treatment of a disease. I think an important difference. And mental training is a no-brainer that you do that because in the end what actually your muscles and where you look and how you your arms and legs and what decision you make, yes your head. And if it's not fit, then you can the biggest biceps, you won't able use it in the end because you don't even know when and how and with which momentum. And I think that's still the same with football, I wonder again and how little mental training is really communicated Because if I 100 points for training, then should least 5 to 10 of that I train like relaxation, relaxation, or switching or regeneration. We had a gym the strength trainer in Brausberg, we did strength training there. The strength trainer with us, it wasn't a dream trip, was just self-training. completely exhausted. I it's so crazy to this relaxation. That's what I You can't always just tension. You have to the opposite pole. You don't just biceps, but also triceps or back and chest or something. And same is true with relaxation and relaxation. And we actually only all time to the tension up. And relaxation has nothing with laziness or somehow lethargic, but it's just a normal game of tension and relaxation. And that will get more important, logically. I think we'll a few more years or even decades. But the business world, it always to It's the bread and butter business we have. Healthy stress management is also form of mental training. When we talk it, what actually you? What do you when you're stressed? Where does it from? Are the thoughts fact or fiction? What your head-bodies? What are you actually afraid Why can't you switch Why don't you that? Why do you you always stress to work?

Speaker 2: Why do you after that you can't fulfill and totally off? Stress competence, to with stress healthily, is pure mental training. Because it is in head whether your body goes into the stress reaction of your system or whether it says, I think it will be shit now and I'm afraid of the opinion of other people, but I won't die because our system in stress and then starts to sweat and you think and can't work and make more mistakes in the end. you'll become more to physical and mental illness because you're constant stress. That's a form of mental training. In business, it's a very simple return on investment. The companies say, we'll a workshop, we'll book a lecture and get our... I don't know, we'll all the lawyers together Those high alternative costs for the hours they have. If they can't work But they know that they can get There are also many studies that prove that if you invest at least 1 out 5, if not even 1 out of 15, will for the company. And the young employers, Jan Y. and Jan Z. only where are also further training measures on subject of personal development, growth, health, healthy stress assessment, etc. Because they don't want to fuck They don't in big, I'm to my 30-year career, I'm care my health and then everything fine. They want on the way. And that's totally legitimate, but two worlds collide. And we can sometimes moderate in the Drachenberg Academy and also in society away from companies. Will the need for reflection and who am actually and what do I in life and what do I want to and What stresses me? What stresses me positively? stresses me negatively? How I find peace? How I balance? How I calmness and ease? It's getting bigger bigger. We have trained over 400 stress coaches who say that the need is huge. That's we the training. Because we said that we couldn't operate each individual We have to our ego. We are other people with the Dracamax method. yes, mean, number one again in 2022.

Speaker 2: With 64 % it avoiding and reducing That means if you down, it's more than every second says, my first is to less stress. And they need a solution. And since the numbers are growing, the problem is getting better, but rather worse. And that's a huge wave that's If you 30 years ago, no one strength training Only the pumpers strength training. The real freaks. Exactly the same with psychology, mental strength, healthy stress assessment. Now it's just the freaks at the The first 10%. And at some point, like with strength training or nutrition, it becomes normal. Because people understand, wow, if I invest there and time and energy, then I better. And if I understood then it's to more time and energy, whatever that is. Podcasts, reading books, attending online programs, with people or even a coaching. That's totally logical. If we good life, yes, in the end we always we are as masters of stress management. The opposite is the case. We sometimes and then we fucked, have back pain, drink too much alcohol, sleep badly and then that's life to be. And that's nonsense. So I think we all deserve to relaxed and happy. Sometimes our own stress-thoughts In life is actually quite awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 1: Lieber tut ja oder selbstverständlicher tut vielleicht. Aber das ist ja genau das, was ich total bestätige kann. Also aus meinem beruflichen Umfeld sozusagen. Also wir machen ja auch Teams Einführung sozusagen bei Unternehmen. Und das ist ja ein Faktor dabei, warum eigentlich so ein Tool wie Teams oder jegliches andere Zusammenarbeitsplattform Kommunikationstool meinetwegen auch, aber kann da jetzt nur primär für Teams was sagen oder für diese Microsoft Landschaft. Because, of as you say, the stress is higher and because the system landscape is getting bigger bigger and people don't even know where to it. Who should I what tool did I use? Sorry. some point, someone or many not be take And that's exactly the stress that from So that you sometimes do yourself, but you too. So certain effect of yes, under or at the end, where I then have to that myself somehow. So managing sounds stupid you to deal So also that I that environment and drive and can and whatever, which may not so natural But I can totally confirm what you said, that many companies are also that field see great benefit by really proactive in the welfare of their employees. And maybe not only them the freedom or some time, but also the possibility to that and to up. So that's already an enormous change in the brain or in the understanding, in the business models of many companies that I now realize over the last few years that there really is such a trend, so more and more. and more embedding and creating more free spaces and simply this meaningful work. That's what I think a lot of

Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not just well-being, but also performance. Because those with stress are less sick. Those deal with stress are productive and And if you contact and you permanently stressed and hectic and can't even think than from the wall to the wallpaper because you too short-term, that's not really cool for the customer either. And that's not necessarily the good thing for companies because they're always so on hard numbers and facts. If you that, I'd that maybe the shortcomings are going drastically. Or have in the last two years because they have grown That may also be But also the other trend, I'd say, When coaching was carried and people saw and accordingly these advice that they get follow, that then also these or freedoms are given and accepted that then these shortcomings in the example now maybe to one exemplary then down then you can prove because otherwise there is always the argument yes, yes, the gentleman and so or the woman so and so tells me that and then doesn't me afterwards. This hard in facts and this result oriented, still with it. And think can turn in that case. Yes, you can it in any case. And that with the communication that the management says we see the burden and we take of it and just train you and make two bigger projects for a very, large company consultation and for a small industry or small risk industry companies where we more with Drachenberg Consulting and really look at how you the company and how you can a vision for the area.

Speaker 2: a stress management or stress management. And what does that for values, for vision, for communication? How do you people internally so that it's a one-off effect, but something sustainable? Because in end, are two optimizations in companies. can optimize the relationship, the structures, or the behavior of individual employees. And behavior of the individual employees is the company culture. There is no culture or the company. but it's always the sum of every employee, implicit and explicit. This also that we on the behavioral level, but when we about it, that they more structured and more in communication and talk more with other about what they need, what they want, clarity, about priorities, about projects, about any topics that have to then it has to systemic difference. You work from the you empower people so they understand what they need to work and then the structure can grow. Because a of are kicked but people are never asked what they want to And we that upside and that's it's so good. The nice thing is it's sustainable because if people understand... that they can simply optimize be it the workplace, the communication with the people, colleagues, customers, etc. And if they to develop and they out of resignation, then they alone. Because they understand, awesome, I feel better, I laugh more, I can sleep I more time for my family. That actually me something.

Speaker 2: Exactly. And that's you want to Because they shouldn't be dependent on you advice like a cooking recipe. Instead, you have to them desire for delicious food and suggest and they start cooking. And not learn the recipes stupidly. Because that's useless. They have to a desire for the result. And that's annoying because everyone can start and stress has a direct implication on everything you can your relationship, your health, your communication, your well-being, your sleep, your nutrition, your sports behavior. is not a stress-related from no life area. Yes, but I think we are, when it to idea of the methodology, speak, so really the employee or every single employee to the center, not so far from each other, but you can how close these topics be. together, because similar to what you just explained, so really the personal added value, something not the tool, so that's basically with many projects, so to the ad block again briefly. In the past, these projects were from the IT and thrown over a fence. And now the software there, now do it. But that doesn't really in the end, because they don't how to this tool properly. So they don't the ideas and the idea of it adequately. And to every single one on this journey, so he can personally... I'm work more effectively alone, others and then whole thing into the company goals, because the entrepreneur or the management at the has found out I don't want to from top to bottom, top to bottom and opt out that the tool is now introduced, but rather they know I'm all behind it. I'm standing behind it, they all that. I support this here as best I can and is

Speaker 1: I don't every day, but I totally it and see the added value. And they all know that I'm Then use it in a different way when they know And that's why this mindset is for each individual. But the end, course, the one thing to is the company's goals and the vision of the management. And then there's the that they have to ready to up responsibility and say, OK, I'm the management But I'm not the one the money in because otherwise the others it. And that into context, I think we currently at a point where it the surface, or arrives, that many people understand. Yes, and in the end you always a growing mindset, so that people understand that they are to And then they for impulses. And that's you want to go, in end, that when you say, the book is awesome or the podcast is awesome or whatever is cool, but that people start and say, I'll in a car ride and listen to me for sake. the podcast by Jakob Drachenberg strengthens your stress competence because there impulses in it, how to with stress better, how to have more ease and more relaxedness. Or get me the book by Herkob Drachenberg, yourself right or something. And that's you want to the understanding that awesome, I can learn in the and try and test and try Whether it's in IT or whether it's a stress management and life-leading And then it exciting because people then action, reflect and then eventually come into growth. And that's they need to because there actually an every topic. And they the abbreviations or logically know more about stress than other people because that's my job in the end. And if you want to how waterball, you go to a waterball coach and tell I'll a pool and here's the ball and I'll do it. But you the expert and this coaching topic is also very exciting. So let's

Speaker 2: Coaching 1 to 1, You have someone who is accompanying whether it's your private or professional topic. Because performance sports, if you a coach, it's a sign that you an amateur team. Then they can't a coach. Or worse, the coach plays along. He's still doing the one-on-one exchange, but he's still center and doesn't a look And he doesn't the outside perspective because he plays along. the he has to coach But he can't because he plays himself. And exactly the same business logic at the end. It works that you zoom and a neutral observer who the best, but who does not adhere to your own decisions that you make. And in performance sports it is very clear that a team has a coach from the outside who does play And that is now also in business, so that people understand that it an extra value. In which area still, whether is stress, personality development, productivity, success, money mindset, health, nutrition, sleep, relationship, you can coach that you say, oh, I have a challenge, I can't go on. If I knew how to get I would have already done That means you just at some you come across a limit. And then you come, for example, with OSC with Chaga. We got an external impulse, he us something else, whoops, we better. If we had known how to the group A, we would already done it. And that's always the logic again and that's sometimes an ego question. that you say, yes, know everything, but I can't it's total nonsense. You your limited horizon. And are other people who can reflect on and who know little more about it. And that's not bad, you can't have the best knowledge And that's getting through, and that's also very nice what you in the younger generation. I watch at seminars and at training. There are 18-, 19-, 20-year-olds who really want to develop For development is not about you do because you're bad, but because you best out of And that's they start. And there are so many options, I have to get impulse, otherwise I can't structure myself. After which I make decisions. Or they understand that they to with themselves. Tell our grandparents that you can what your vision is of life, where you want

Speaker 2: what your values are or your needs are. They say, dude, be glad you something to eat, a health insurance and workplace. The rest doesn't So then we've the pyramid We're safe, we're health insured, we have a job or a degree or something. And now the question why am I all this? And if you a adequate solution that works you, then everything will flow much more in end. Then you're totally aligned with your values, with your vision. with your needs and then you can take all the small and big decisions in the right direction, channelize them. Exactly the same thing with the OECD, André asked what we wanted achieve this season. We want to the A-group. All right, then we so that we the A-group. But he got the commitment they made the annual plan and then it started. And Germany, the people who have week of more than the 51 other weeks of life. They just around the old age and that's just ultra sad because you yourself ultra potential. It doesn't to be that you only yourself from diseases, but you can also not only get of disease, also to life pleasure and quality of life. And that's also my job, to people and really a little and say, man, there's more in there, but not because it's shit now, but because it's just You can still feel better. You better relationships with your people, your friends, your romantic relationship, with your yourself and just feel and make better experiences. Because that's why we're here, because we want And some people just live their shit and it's a bit of shame. And not because they want to, but because they don't know or don't have the good inspiration that goes little bit more into life. You what I mean? For example, the podcast is a really cool example. You just said, hey, I want to try I have a tool I'll over the plate antenna, I haven't done let's start. You a vision and implemented mean all these little things. And it for everyone, but not everyone did or I can't remember anyone who did

Speaker 1: Thank At least not Germany. There one or two international from the USA or something that. And recently we found a successor in to the podcast, with an American podcast, which is now new, since 1st or the beginning of year. Let's see. I see it less as threat or as competitor, but as living example of the story. Yeah. Therefore, there is no second place or second chance for the first impression. That's was. That's I wanted to say. Now we've already about the academy. Maybe you briefly introduce the people who it. No.

Speaker 1: Then we had, or you already said, you're doing certification or training for stress coaching That might sound very uninteresting to some people right because we just talking about further development. Qualification, certification, whatever, is not a topic but it could be for some people. So maybe to see both points again, so academia and this coaching story. Yes, exactly. The academy was two and years ago, so I realized that if I don't think beyond myself, I won't to the next level. Because then if I want I to work and that's anymore. I'm already working full-time. And then I said, have to a system that can breathe and that it beyond me, end of the from the people. Then we put it, made the Drachmik method out It's also both books that I've in the GU-publishers. And about the Drachenberg Academy we have people who, I also this workshops and lectures, or give the training content, but we now have, as I 11 people here at the Drachenberg Academy and grow very strongly, where not everything from me where lectures are by other people, workshops, coachings are by other people, the live calls in the stress coach training are by other people. That first to the academy and there the vision is relatively simple, because I lot about vision now, namely healthy stress management for everyone. Really it possible And we the multiplier, we train other people so that they other people in stress area. Because we can't reach in the end. Not everyone likes the concept we have. And exactly, the core product is stress coaching. Interestingly, a total Corona baby. Because we Corona, with seminars and everything. And then we realized, would be pretty against wall if we don't understand how we can adapt. And then we the stress coach training, completely digital, six months, local and time-dependent. And yes, now it our core product and the growth field for us. And we it black because the need for to grow, to continue to train, especially in stress area. And then really the abstruse people in there, where we didn't even think it was interesting

Speaker 2: We with the no-brainer categories, who the yoga field, leadership, staff, HR, osteopaths, physiotherapists, teachers, teachers, street workers, people who just for themselves in end to develop or people who want business advisors, business advisors. And the stress coach training, you said, certification is also relatively easy to for with us. We by TÜV and the ZFU, the central testing station for remote teaching in Germany. Both took several months. It wasn't that easy, but got both. That's the highest level education you can TÜV and ZFU in Germany, both state and TÜV. And really to a stress coach. In the end, can one-to-one stress coaching, no matter what kind stress is with players or coaches or whatever. whether it is private or professional stress, you learn just one thing, the big one, the stress coaching craft. About question techniques, mirroring, setting following in the end reflecting really looking which method I can use, where is the problem? Also in stress, when people into stress coaching, they only their symptoms, but they don't know the root. If they knew, they would have solved And that is your job to as a stress detective and the coach, the person who lets you and things. And be it from being the to the best, be it from, everyone else is more than me, to establishing a healthy self-care, be it to understand that fear is just a hypothesis about the future, and it's not even true yet. look, is it a pure head-burning thing that you do as stress and what is really proven and And what is exclusively just designed by your head, by your brain at the end. Exactly, is shaped by learning videos, by live calls, so to everything you need. We also have several modules on subject of independence, marketing, but really the core area is you are ready you get and yes, wherever, whether part independence, full independence or in the profession in which you are at end and combining. Yes, very nice.

Speaker 1: Sounds not very exciting. other words, sounds very exciting, probably for many who are maybe first time to or maybe with the topic. Maybe that can be a little quintessence or small result of the fact maybe one or the other now maybe thought, okay, maybe it stress coaching or a further education, a stress coach, maybe something. Because, as I said, in the professional environment, this topic is just so ... is immensely present at moment and of over the next weeks, months, not necessarily less, but rather more, because much more of this generation just somehow at work life, from school, from university or from wherever and then of course, as I said, expectations are sometimes completely different with the things and systems that are such company or maybe not necessarily but Griefen teils die letzten jahre also wenn da jemand von den beiden generationen die du vorhin genannt hast ins unternehmen kommt und dann keine ahnung twitter facebook tiktok macht Der wird sich mit so einer email inbox dann und seinen kollegen dann darüber zu kommunizieren relativ schwer tun also Können vielleicht auch ich jetzt nicht so weit gehen dass dann die depression oder wie was krankhaftes auch entsteht aber Die werden sind halt unzufrieden also das ist nicht dann unbedingt wieder diese dieses Yes, self-fulfilling work, meaningful work, I would And maybe finally a word about your book. Maybe to also address the cliffhanger to the idea that we also have here, to towards live format. A current book came and you working on the Yeah.

Speaker 1: I to use but there lot of Yes, totally. The second book I wrote is Stressig richtig, it in the German G.U. on the 2nd February. And what to is that it's a writing book, the communication with the publisher and then of promotion on all channels and take that it's... not that I'm but that the whole topic, that the people know where they can then a few people wanted signed books, then you to a little advertising. and orchestrate besides the normal job. not bad, because I It's a pure luxury stress, at end. I because I wrote and I like As I book stresses you out. The new decisions for more relaxedness are easy to stack You can it by the you can over 5,000 book deals everywhere. Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Amazon and everywhere you can it. So, similar to the podcast, it's also always said, wherever are good podcasts. Similar to the book, So, wherever there are good books, there's your book, Maybe exactly, I just mentioned or touched on that we still have an idea to have this, not based on the book, but on the topic, that we, after the recording of actual...

Speaker 1: normal podcast, would maybe then as another format, soon again, about the social media networks or platforms, want a live talk. So that we a similar format or similar format as today, but then only live, then real time on the social networks, with the possibility to ask questions. to get of or you questions and then maybe in the ideal case, course, logically, to an answer to the question, that we maybe want little bit interaction with this topic, because it is such a current thing and in many areas. So you already it, whether relationships, whether sport, whether profession. So it has a lot of connection points. And maybe there questions out there, where one or the other is wondering, I'd like to an answer. So I'm looking forward to you saying yes, I it's good, we can do it. It's not so obvious, but it's always a bit of surprise. But find it very exciting, based on the important topic, which find exciting and which is ultra-actual. in the I'm forward to yes, I would say we've a lot, heard a lot, lot information. In the beginning, water as a in the second part we over bit, logically, into this professional path, which I also extremely exciting.

Speaker 1: We would agreed on this conversation without It's of course not without reason. Then thank you for the first moment. As I said, we'll and hear each again, maybe even before in Potsdam. And then again in this live format. We will a date that fits best for all participants. and also something makes for the people who can participate Maybe one day on the weekend, an hour or half an hour, we'll But we'll communicate in time and and out of the big forest of social media world. I it totally exciting. Thank you again for being I a lot fun. It wasn't that stressful on the other hand. No, very relaxed. I had a lot fun Thank very also for the format here. I like your podcast very much. Yes, very good. You like I always it's as nice as oil, but that's not a Very

Speaker 1: Okay, as I thank you again, a nice day and see you later for the live format and all you who have with the topic of stress management I hope there were many answers to some questions, maybe even some questions that were raised that were not there Maybe we could the impulse that earlier. That's always a bit a... the intentions of such a conversation. I'm if you're next time. See you Jakob. We'll keep in touch. Bye. Thank you!

Speaker 1: And again we end of the podcast episode in conversation with Jakob Drachenberg. Thank you Jakob for the exciting performance, from the water work. I hope we other soon. And I can only say else, stay tuned. Also in the next episode it be exciting again, because then we the Spanish national trainer of the gentlemen as guest. So see soon, stay healthy, bye bye from Hannover.