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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome from Hannover and I welcome you to the 40th edition of the Waterpolo Expert Talk Podcast. And as last week, today with the second part of the conversation with Thorsten on the topic of sports psychology. So it will be as exciting as last week. fun now Thorsten in the conversation.

Speaker 1: So that's maybe a bit of a waterball theme also a waterball theme quite well, because the theme of example. So whoever to with waterballs, he says later, he has some point during the active career or least afterwards. So the shoulder throw has always somehow with passion. And I'll if that once and someone can operate this longing there, The super Spinatus scene. Exactly, that's I meant. It's great that one of us knows the But then to into this normal movement process and this restful attitude and then to pull through again, that's really a topic between the ears, what you say. physically and motorically everything is okay, but I always think, well, be it hurts, I won't through. Exactly. that's where in great with coaches. That's why important to a coach in the process. How can I framework conditions in training, so that the athlete or the athlete gets into a position, I have to deliver now, quotation marks, yes, and I do that. So I build trust by piece and then the internal so myself, and not by chance or luck. It is important that athletes learn to differentiate Is it a requirement? If you do performance sports have nothing to do

Speaker 1: Only conditionally healthy at the lower limit, yes. Best in the second shot and gerade by by anti cyclical shikten also were fun or tennis or golf or be a little bit a feeling by spiel dafür Or badminton schlaghand is enough. Gleicher. Ne? Also schuld auch mit dabei. So okay. Was is jetzt ne? Ne be anspruchen die aufgrund die normales muskulär meinetwegen oder wann sind es halt irgendwie schmerzen und da geben auch dann wieder diese grauzone schmerzmittel missbrauch also das kann man dann schön achtsamkeit schulen und gucken dass man hat da nicht so und so in a pain cycle because I have an injury that increases self-attention, I become more maybe even much more into account and interpret much more into it than it actually is or actually suppresses. That's not that bad. Bite on the teeth. So no pain, no gain and sweat, it's in the blood and all the bodybuilder sayings I call it placate. The body has over the years and decades, centuries. And pain has a function. Or a And pain medication is my image. And it's clear. If I pain medication and it lasts time, don't into a house. I fire fireman and say it's burning. And that's the responsibility. It's a personal development to the athlete, And to What are the three pillars of sports psychology? First, performance, performance, optimization, personality development and mental health. And these three pillars simply to a balance. If something is missing, high performance will not happen.

Speaker 1: Yes, can't always just at things separately, but as a whole picture, understand the whole thing and then try to the balance somewhere and one thing without the other. You said earlier that you lot of athletes with different sports in Maybe just briefly the question, is there these sports?

Speaker 2: It's always a bit about the sport. First of big difference is whether I'm a single athlete or a team athlete. And from that, there's a certain profile for the respective sport. And then, course, position-specific. So, I'm a team athlete, I'm the striker who has score. Then I to hang of... Egoism is a have and then of the test or machen to wollen or bin. I don't like don't agree the middle felt spieler the air lager orientate is feel war name can? Enschallung treffen creative say most of the field the open to create and da Would not then show no cave was this then, vielleicht? Ideal typisch, wenn wenn es der untersuchen für gibt ne ansonsten nehme ich dann halt immer tatsächlich Die die atleten mit ins bot weil die stehen auf dem platz Thank Should have asked yes that's true. And as much as I can imagine that and as much as I to able I can't. And that's I don't want to measure to do the he just it like that. That's why I can accompany open questions and say, can I framework conditions that you can yourself, or how you your self-management skills so that you comfortable.

Speaker 2: in And I mean, currently we back in this Olympic cycle and Tokyo is now in of door and also other sports. Fortunately, after Corona, somehow in which steps, always further, what pace, always with football experience, little faster than anywhere else. But do you have any active parts in or contacts, teams, coaches, coaches you work in terms of Olympia and any restarts in any leagues that are now back on? So there are few athletes and athletes who are to Olympics. And you notice that they are The tension is rising. Because you train for a goal and you just to show what you can And think there is a lot of pressure on the And now you have to see, depending on how I the tension up so it doesn't boil or that it's not too much. So you really to look at it. Some can it quite well for themselves. And some, if you them a bit or push them sensibly, they still like to beyond the target. And that's definitely not useful for their performance.

Speaker 1: That's true. But are they now also, I'll they are now probably, if they to the Olympics, not necessarily in such a hole in it. But are there any certain measures, is the wrong word, but preparation, preparation, also mentally or sport psychologically now in the foreground of the Olympics, which you should people or the athlete with whom you to do, the heart. So I don't know, techniques, form, competition, during the competition, if something didn't go in the game as you could handle because, as I said, is, as we've the top event that you can achieve. Sorry, I answer individually. Psycho is probably, or between the ears, always relatively individual, so it's not % think that if says, okay, I don't know what's me, then... I know from practice, but not from a fixed example. I don't know what's coming that you best-case and worst-case scenarios and say, what's the worst thing you can what's Then you this process and say,

Speaker 2: And what resources and skills could to out of it? Or that I am halfway satisfied And you up story like There are some pre-start routines where I say, okay, can regulate my emotions Then, for example, on the train and now I to be that my don't overrun So you a pre-start routine established where you minutiously, okay, I'm to this, this and that. I do my certain warm-up, I have internal self-talks to distract I my running mental again, to then the switches in way that I can let that I let fall and simply perform. At high performance we cannot force it to Or team sports would be a process of failure. What if I back up What happens if we the first group game? The topics are very diverse. Or there pressure. Whether it's from the outside world media or the expectation pressure that I on myself, that it doesn't too high. But this topic of self-reflection or creation of routines, that you feel and with the around you no longer feel uncomfortable or deal with it, but really on the performance and on the performance that you can physically. That's about it. And this self-talk, that was stuck in the other conversation with Tamara, that it's not at ... is or negative, but just a catalyst.

Speaker 2: Absolutely. So this principle of spirit is present. So I have to in the here and now, in the moment. And if I succeed, then I just it. And before the competition, or immediately during the competition, I can't improve physiologically. Then I to call what I have the cycle. It's just about the unfolding. So how can I unfold And whether that now with a Visualization or or self-talks is completely different and self-talks are not bad because everyone who up the Ikea shelf knows how inner self-talks are. I'm the big one, I'm not And ultimately, one is a bit loud, the other speaks the light. So these inner self-talks, these thoughts, they are our actions, they give us structure, give us lines. You can an inner check-up and say, okay. How do I feel when I'm in mood? What is my zone of optimal functioning? What am I doing about You can it beforehand. And then to say, I'll do an internal body scan, a check-up, and go through. Zack, zack, zack, body posture, whatever. I can distract because two things at 100 percent. So I'd rather on the things I can control, that help and don't from the stadium. I'm not a cool guy like Hussein Bolt, who says he needs this and makes the rocket of the 100m sprint final and ends the world record. There are but I think they just god-sent. There are not many Yeah, that's true. Or an Oli Khan who says, scream at with 80 people in the stadium, then I'll another 11 meters more.

Speaker 2: Exactly, there's nothing more where I personally say no. hope not. So that's the game to watch. But I think that's also the exciting about this whole topic, sports psychology as That's what you say, individual. So everyone ticks differently, everyone reacts differently, everyone goes differently with things or with situations and that makes it so exciting. So no athlete is like the other, so to speak. that's exactly what's exciting about the story. And there again, to an example, toothache is to everyone that you to dentist. But somehow, when I a new cabinet, I go to the dentist. So, if I my training plan, I go to the training center or to the physiotherapist. So, this, oh, the head. So, no, uh, so there are very, very great terms for the professional group. and really put in of Exactly, that's what I said. It's still being negatively affected. But as I I find it very exciting. you said, physically the whole thing is then but the only thing where you can still something out of or optimize it is with yourself or with the athletes somewhere between the ears. So that's the aspect where you something out of and work it.

Speaker 1: As is probably an automatic limit. And how can I regenerate? Not only physically, but mentally as Especially in the workplace, example. I good Yes, mean, it's a completely different topic, but I it very interesting because global players like Microsoft, example, now with Viva announced some things, where you then the opportunity to technologically, self-reflection. So how am I today? Or I get asked how am I And I asked how am I And then I can already such a mental... And how should say, such mental development. But these are things that during the pandemic, where people are sitting in home office, sitting back of the computer, on some appointments, from one call to the next, and are totally at the end of the day. And to of this counter-pol, which you mentioned to on and to breathing exercises or then you some mental exercises suggested, so that it sound as It seems to bring and that goes in exactly the direction you said.

Speaker 2: Exactly. Hans Ebersbecher introduced the concept of opposite world. He okay, what is my personal, individual opposite world where I my batteries? And can by a cappuccino. You know what's fishing.

Speaker 2: Exactly, that's where everyone... It's not rational, it's emotional. It doesn't to be relaxing, can also be stressful, physically exhausting. It just has for me personally. You can that with professional athletes, where you say, okay, what's the opposite world? Where do I build the opposite world? Where do I energy from? And they of course, sport. But not their sports, but playing tennis or golfing, where you think, huh? But it's normal, actually. But if they I can myself fall, let and that's something for me, then it's okay. I it was so important for coaches to with this topic. Because I believe that besides the, I call it, quotation marks, pure skill and methodic competence, we work with people, And I believe that from a good time, or up to a certain level, can simply train I would or read or their own experience. But then this difference between a good trainer and a super good trainer or world-class trainer, That's the of these soft skills, this emotional... I work with people and I have to empathetic, have to authentic, have my opponent as holy. And to recognize that, to say, one needs this and for his performance, the other needs exactly the opposite. And to so sensitive to highly sensitive and positive sense, to perceive that and then accordingly.

Speaker 2: without losing then to say that coach, coach, is often relatively ungrateful, because who says to coach, what you've So going to say how can I lead how can I lead how can I wonderful feedback culture that then also me personally as a coach. And that's the great thing.

Speaker 1: Yes, but it's also interesting to observe or to statements or recognitions that are gradually being by other coaches in other sports, and to at which types of coaches there are and what their leadership style like. Is one of totally the human catcher, in good German, and can he well with people, or can the other one now less well with people, but that doesn't necessarily to with success. So it may also with one or the other club. There are enough examples, in football world. But then I think that's also charismatic in the sense of knowing what I well. And notice that I'm not the tactical fox, the top level. I my stuff for But can motivate to go through the fire. As Jürgen Klinsmann Joachim Löw

Speaker 2: I think that such a and a message should only to the top coach, but on the basis that should start. Because I think that better the coaches are early on, especially in the the sports, the better the young people, the children, develop themselves better, stay longer in the sport and maybe the leap to the top. So that's I see it. Well, it goes in the same direction, which many coaches or other functions in sports say that in the post-training area be the best coaches. Because accordingly, training is better. And when they arrive it relatively on the way there. As if you have a quality, not so good coach, then will be difficult afterwards. to it. That's it the right And that we stay for the sport. That's

Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. that's a phenomenon, Maybe not necessarily just from the waterball, but also that children, maybe when they early, much, are challenged or whatever, some point later, they don't feel like it in German, because they burned and no longer really to the waterball, but then somehow say, it's too much And then they 15, 16, where it's just the first in ideal case goes on and on and gets exciting and interesting. I'm curious to see how far this development the world will How early you specialize. Is it normal for teenagers to athletic training for soccer? For example, is a prominent example of Jonas Hektor or Robin Gosens who have an NHL set from the and then still have the jump or sorry, Miroslav Klose, who was at 21 years old and in the district league and is now World goalkeeper king. I'm just curious where it goes. I also to to general or to say that it is good or bad. It's a bit about how you live or how you implement I mean, youth football center by its performance. But if you're happy you some. I think done because there were Now the trend is no there.

Speaker 1: Basically, if you see young footballers these all have already rhetorical training, they all the same, they know how to communicate in interviews, they all almost the same and probably all the same game system or often on the position, no idea. There is no one who is somehow dribbling or simply playing without a snore. So that will all be nice. in some certain paths. And that's what's missing in the national team. And that's why Gosenz, maybe also a success, because he didn't through this school and maybe just away from the liver, logically in a tactical connection. But maybe not these guidelines he had the time, last 10, 15 years. I think the system gives certain structures automatically and before. The posters are not made by whole United States as an athlete with the U10, but I was just an example. But yes, that's the story. You just to the individual again somewhere and with some sports data the peak is with 14, 15, 16. And in other sports it's only around 30 if I'm the of endurance. If talking the sound, I'm out This athletic training at football is not a single case. It's the at That you always some discussions. If you say you start in the U14, for example, that's just a starting point, maybe a very good one, to least start with athletic training or strength training in some form, just in discussions with the parents. So is that good? Is that not good? Why should a child do

Speaker 2: in. So the data system is really good where you can rely on if you with healthy human mind and then prioritize it. And then to say that it's the next giant construction site where many people are for talent identification. So what am I the talent? And I don't know if it's basketball, but there's another sport that does this... What is the term when I in the second half of the year? So the late development. I often see the in the first half of in the or in foreign teams. Whether I in January or in November, a year at 10 12 years can be a huge physiological difference. And what do I by physiological parameters? Does that a talent? I hey, he's not so fast, not so competitive, but he has something. Maybe feeling or strategies or he anticipate Things you can't measure. And there you are always on the lookout. And I think if you can I have good coaches who recognize and not only on the result... I I want to time and buy time to get a good game. Then everyone wins. It's hard in the sports world to and win.

Speaker 1: Yes, but all, the short-term success. That's where you the difference. The short-term success is that I definitely the 13 best ones with me, for And the long-term average success would be I maybe only 10 of them with but take two with me where I say, have something different. They not the fastest or whatever. But they have other qualities that you might not in any other Axle file. Exactly. And then to say, what is this, how can I promote how can I get And then not to this short-term presence of the coach. Because ultimately you are only by the game results. Because you don't know what of work is on And telophanies and organizing and doing and doing. And on the weekend you all the coaches, national coaches. Goetzke said it nicely. He glad that there 82 million national coaches and not 82 million virologists. That's right. He's right. You can't just agree with That's right.

Speaker 2: So that's where the game And I say, how does this systemically If I say, hey, this is my job, I have a family, I have to the job, I have to the contract, it will only be that if I win. So I try to make it so. So I'm curious how you of can you idea of new daffodils on the seat trainer then I'm farre yeah besseres besseres Umfeld or a great on stabiles umfeld haben dass er vielleicht nicht unbedingt jetzt auf den kurzfristigen erfolg angewiesen sind und dann muss man halt natürlich die trainer haben die vielleicht auch so denken also Die ist wirklich was ist und dann aber auch so ein bisschen dass das fingerspitzen gefühl haben wie du sagst dass auch rauszukriegen oder raus zu zu bemerken und auszukitzeln that I have one two with me and then them differently and to encourage them. Because works with the two, maybe little bit different than with the rest. Yes, super exciting. Thorsten, then I you in any case. I found it, as I said, I still it exciting. somehow feels with every conversation you deal with So I thought it was really great. So thank you much for I have to thank you. for creating a platform to talk the topic more. The more you talk about it, the more attention you Exactly, and then let's hope that we all have problems, that professional help or support can in this aspect as well with the dentist, with any toothache.

Speaker 2: No. Very nice. Well, as I said, thank you in any I hope we'll and hear each again soon. And otherwise I wish you a sensational evening and that the Germans may win the third group game I'm not you any expert advice, but you can always used Thanks for the invitation, have a nice evening. Super, ich dank dir. Bis dann! Tschüss!

Speaker 1: And now the jubilee is over again. I hope you enjoyed it. It new insights into psychology in the sport I would be very happy if you next time with the next episode of the podcast. In the meantime, maybe a short note. I the website SchulzeKopp... www.waterpolo.com Costs, decks, that's right, but as I said, there any wealth in And don't myself in any way, but should be sake of the whole platform and the possibilities and the action that we with the podcast and have in Yes, the safe legs, so to So take I would forward to every new podcast buddy and until then, stay healthy. See you soon from Hannover.