Speaker 2: Yeah. So which is also not only then for the sports area than the case. normally the story is also to learn other languages at the very beginning, which is exactly the same when I get it correctly. Yeah. So it's easier for young kids to learn, I don't know, a different language then as maybe then. with 20 or 25 or whatever. So it's very much easier than this early stages.

Speaker 1: Exactly. And this is the coaching point that Rico would drive home is that we cannot solve their movement problems for them. We have to give them to them and let them struggle through it. And that changed my perspective because as a coach, I wanted to fix every little thing. But now I kind of let them work through this problem themselves. And I'm constantly challenging them with problems because that is what's going to help them. learn early, right? We set up environments for them to learn. We don't make them learn. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes. So when you have to cover a problem or to find the right solution for a problem and this over and over again, so it's much more than better for the development of each kit instead of, okay, I'll give you the solution for that.

Speaker 1: Absolutely. you know, what we saw that is my 10 year olds were doing things that I couldn't get high school kids to do. And I was, I was blown away. So we ran, you know, a very Japan press style counter attack. Cause I had little guys, right. And they were releasing and hitting cross passes and shots. And I'm like, you're, you're, you're 10. Like you guys are figuring this out. And it's so beautiful because

Speaker 2: You

Speaker 1: I never told him to do that. They did that on their own, you know, and it's, so cool to see the learning. And this is where I think coaches go wrong. The metabolic conditioning does not matter when you're 10, when you're okay. When you're 12 for girls, it matters if we're looking. So my real goal is to create a long-term athletic development program so that we understand and take advantage of what each level and stage of life has to give. What I mean is. Did you know for under 10 year olds, is when their neuroplasticity is the most changeable and growable? So do we need to swim and work really hard? No, we need to solve complex problems so that we can become good movers and have a good understanding of the game. Whereas 12 to 14 year old girls, this is their biggest metabolic window. So if you can get their metabolic window up during that time, they're going to be in the best shape as they become 14, 16, 17, 18. Right. Whereas boys, it's really 14 to 16 where their metabolic window is. So that's really where we need to push them and teach them how to train. Right. Um, but it's interesting to me, and this is a point we actually connected on was the way we structure path practice really matters a lot. And the metabolic conditioning, the true metabolic conditioning work really doesn't matter until you're in the high level. So, you know, even if you. Don't do the cardio work hard portion from 14 to 17, right? Because 18, let's consider those with the pros, right? Those are the older guys, girls, they're ready to go. They should be. But below that, if we can just hone in on technical skill, hone in on game understanding, we can always, like, it doesn't take that long to get in shape. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: Then we can push that off until the older athletes and that's where we can really focus on how is your metabolic condition? How is your training going? You know, how's your power output? How hard are you shooting? How high are you jumping? Those physiological measurements can wait, right? But if you don't know how to throw correctly, if you don't know how to eggbeater correctly, we're going to have really problems in our youth. But the thing we connected on was how to structure a practice for metabolic conditioning for the older athletes. And this is so I've done about 15 years of metabolic testing. So I have VO2 max resting metabolic rate, looking at breath and physiological output. It is physically impossible for you to sprint every day. And here in America, we like to make our kids sprint every day. They're going to do 10, 100s with very low rest. They're going to do 10, 200s with very low rest. And what happens is the body stops recovering and actually starts declining. Right. You can only sprint two days a week. need 72 hours neurologically, just neurologically. We're not even talking the metabolic load, 72 hours to recover from a sprint session. So maxing out also a sprint session, right? We can't have those all through the week. And I think that's where people have a misconception about what the body can actually take. So what I like to do is undulate three days. You have a low easy day. We can put a lot of shooting on this day. can, you know, make it a six on five day. We can, you know, make it a little bit of a leg day. And the goal is to just like have them move. What I love is Rico on Mondays. He would never have them do anything smart. Cause kids aren't smart on Mondays, you know, coming home, coming in from the weekend, he would, it would always just be some type of physical movement type day. And I love this. And then the next day is a stimulation day. So we're going to do. you know, zone two, zone three work. So a little bit harder, but not true sprinting, right? We can do our tactics here because we can think, right? And then the final day is our sprint day. So that's the third day. That's really going to be where we push it hard. We're to go max sprints, long rest. We're going to go hard shooting or heavy, you know, or heavy counterattack day. These things allow us to really push the limit of what we're doing, but then we have to start all over again. We have to go an easy day. So the body has time to recover. And then by time we've reached 48 hours, we can do another sprint session because 48 hours is when the metabolic system recovers. 72 hours is when the nervous system recovers. It's okay for the nervous system to not be fully recovered. Okay. And we can actually measure this. Did you know this?

Speaker 2: Yes, but maybe you are able to tell us how.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going to measure this through a number called heart rate variability or your HRV. This is a lagging indicator of nervous system stress. So the lower your HRV is the more stressed out. It's the measure of the R wave. So if you're familiar with an ECG, right, the R wave is the peak, right? So do do right the top of the R wave, we're measuring the distance between each of them or the next time the next one happens. When you're Parasympathetic relaxed and happy it's gonna be random so more variable so there's gonna be a higher variability of when it hits when you're Like stressed out and you know sympathetic your body's gonna be very metronome Do do do do do because there is no variability your heart has to control when it's coming out. Well We again we can measure this Proactively every day so I wear something called a whoop I don't know if you guys are familiar with this tracker. There's also the R ring, but this tells me my HRV every day. So I'm able to see that and I use that in conjunction with my resting heart rate to know where am I going? If my resting heart rate goes up and my HRV goes up, I'm stressed out. I'm tired. My body is not happy. Right. But if my HRV goes up and my resting heart rate goes down, Hey, I'm getting in better shape. And this allows me to have objective measures about how my athletes are doing. And I think the whole goal of what I'm trying to do with data and water polo and what we all should do is stop going off of what we think is happening and make clear decisions based off of concrete data. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. You also mentioned some kind of trackers, which is the ring or the boob band. There are for sure several other things people out there can use for that with the same result or for the same result. But I think it's good to be a little bit more aware of the things and the relationship to each other. the one thing goes up and the other thing goes down, maybe then it's good for me and I feel it, but also I see it and I have it right in front of me so that I see it's not only, as you said, not only a feeling or an expectation, it's then based on real data, thing, yeah, and then to be able to structure the training or the practice week based of... these data, which makes maybe from a coaching point of view, not easy. So with 20 people, 20 different ⁓ forms and analysis and ⁓ results, but then some performance, ups and downs maybe make sense. which are not only... You see during the practice maybe, but you are not really knowing where these ups and downs are coming from.

Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what's good is, and it's actually quite easy. I actually just did a video this past week. So if you go to my Instagram, can see it on how to modulate or change training based off of your HRV. And you become three buckets. You have kids who are green and ready to go. You have kids who are yellow and then you have kids who are red, right? The kids who are red, if you're in a season cycle where you can give them the leeway. Give them the leeway, let them do an easy practice for that day. Maybe they don't have to sprint. Maybe they don't have to do the hard set, right? Maybe they don't have to shoot as much. We can cut the volume down. But then, you know, the kids were agreeing and yellow go have a good practice. We're going to, it doesn't matter. But at the end of the day, as a coach, it doesn't matter how you feel or what your HRV is. If we need to do a certain training aspect, if we need to work on counter attack, if we needed, you know, whatever it is, then we need to do it. Right. And that's, that's the best part is I have a choice as a coach to be like, Hmm, can I afford the athlete, the space or do we need to, you know, do it anyway? And, know, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Right. ⁓ meaning that yes, we have this number. Yes. This athlete's low, but they're going to recover eventually. I just have to find that recovery place. I think the thing that happens is that we, we just have to be cognizant as coaches and not drive our kids into the ground. And this gives us an objective way to not drive them into the ground. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Yeah, and the structure you mentioned before, the structure, the ability, the chance to structure the practice week. Is this, from your perspective only, then the case or a good thing for the kids area? Or do you say, okay, I need also a coach for adult people and for 18 plus kids. Then also these kinds of structure during the week that where I have some some highlights and some spots and some topics I need to work on, but I don't need to do sprints every day and do only the swimming part the whole week, for example.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is yes. So you know, I use this structure for both groups. Just the type of work will change and then also. Thing we have to understand kids who are under puberty, right? Can't actually sprint so you can sprint them as much as you want because they're not actually accessing their sprint system. They have an inability to to push their glycolytic and. ATP PCR systems, which is their sprint systems. They don't have access to it yet. Puberty is the thing that gives us access to our sprinting power, if that makes sense. So there's no negative metabolic effects on kids who are pre-pubescent. It's only for adults. And this is where the structure matters the most is for people who are categorically adulting, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe just to round up the section, when you say we need some period of time for recovery, we need, on the other hand, taking into account the age of the kids, the phases of their ages or their lives. would you suggest or recommend to coaches ⁓ to think of a little bit more from now on? Maybe when all of them listen to the podcast today, they have to work a little bit more on their skill set, let's say it that way, from your perspective. So what are the one, two, three aspects coaches need to rethink or think a little bit more from now on.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's gonna be three things. Number one is we need to look into long-term athletic development because there's been a lot of research about what each group needs. And when you understand that, it helps us make better decisions about how to train them. Number two is gonna be we have to understand metabolic systems. For example, your ATP PCR system lasts from zero to 15 seconds. We need to train that. So 15 second work, we have centers work for 15 seconds, know, backing down on the opponent. or, know, pressing against each other, that type of thing. Then we have our glycolytic system, zero, it's at 15 seconds to two minutes. That's one of our sprint systems that needs to be trained. But then we have our CREB cycle or our long slow distance cycle that has to be trained too, right? So it's just getting a complete view of training rather than just training one style all the time. And then lastly is what we talked about in the beginning is self-care. You can't out train bad recovery habits. So you can train as hard as you want, but the body is going to break down eventually. having a system for helping your body recover from hard things is going to be paramount to your success as an athlete. Our best athletes aren't always the ones who are the most skilled. It's the ones whose bodies can last the longest. It's the simple, simple truth of it.

Speaker 2: Okay, yes, simple is true. It's some kind of obvious sometimes, yeah, but it's also not maybe the focus of most of the coaches maybe then as you mentioned, so you have to focus on things you need to work on and you do not have all the time and pool time and water time and so on. So it's maybe then some new aspects we can bring into the coaching life from now on. You already mentioned that you worked with the other Azevedo guys, with Tony and his dad. And 6-8 Sports, you also already mentioned. So how you are part of these community connections? What about the connection between Waterport Strong and 6-8 Sports?

Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically I teamed up with six, eight sports because they have the first sports specific battery for a water pool. Meaning we test how hard you shoot, how high you jump, um, and how well you come over your hips, how fast you sprint. And then we have an obstacle course as well. Um, this to me needs to be a standard across the sport. And instead of creating my own, I thought it better to connect with them and help push what they're doing. because we just need one system. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yes. So when you say your ideas or principles are really based on data, then you need some kind of test like Tony does with his tests, that you have really a reliable base then for your strategy or whatever you mentioned it.

Speaker 1: Exactly. And then they created also the six eight game desk, which gives us plus minus scores for each athlete. And we're able to understand who's having the most positive impact in a game. Right. So what I did was I joined them and created a baseline assessment for us to assess at a baseline, how well an athlete's moving on land. And we bucketed it. There's three buckets. You have your health, you have your sports performance, and then you have a game performance. Right. Plus minus indicator is your performance indicator. So. We can tell from an athlete, your body's doing really well. you're very powerful on output, but you're really low in the game. That means you don't know how to play. And we just got to work on your tactics, your brain. You know, as Rico says, I don't care if you bring your body today, bring your brain. And then, you know, say you have an athlete who's high in gameplay, but terrible in the body. Well, that means that they know how to play, but their body doesn't move very well. And we just need to fix that part. And now we have an athlete who has all three things that are really good. So. Yeah, I just I brought a level of kinesiology that they didn't have already because of course they're they're super high level waterfall players. They understand the game. They understand how to look at athletes and this gave us a leg up in really making sure our athletes are improving. We've put athletes all across the NCAA. Our kids always get recruited. The 6-8 Academy is one of the best training environments I've ever been a part of. You get two hours with me in the morning. You get three hours with Rico and Tony in the after, like in the, and after me, right. So it's not that I haven't seen a better system. I'm making sure the athletes are mobile, move well, take care of their tissues and are well trained. And then they can go and work on their brains and the way they play the game with Tony and Rico and Maggie. It's, it's, it's unparalleled to me. you know, what I learned out of that is, and this data set we created is here's five things. Most athletes don't understand every aspect of the game. Most athletes need to work on some part of their sports performance. And it's not by working on the things they're good at that make them a better athlete. It's about working on the things they're bad at. So if I'm bad over the hips, I need to work on that. I don't need to focus on my eight beat. I don't need to focus on my shot. I need to focus on coming over my hips well. And when we change that frame of reference, the athletes ceiling goes up higher. And then lastly, If I don't mobility problems are performance problems. So what I found in a water polo is two things. need mobility and stability. If our body doesn't have range of motion, we're not going to egg beater. Well, we're not going to shoot. Well, we're not going to move well. And then if we're not stable, we're not going to be able to express any sorts of power in the sport. Um, so it's very, very important that we cover all those areas, um, as athletes. And to me, what we created at six eight is one of the best systems in water polo. Maybe in most sports, because we're using data to do what most people can't. Truly have an objective way of looking at the sport.

Speaker 2: And then. Hmm. Yeah. So it sounds like a full cycle, a full service, a full cycle service. Yeah. Let's say that way.

Speaker 1: I was gonna say it's part of the reason why I love them is just it was such you know a great environment of us working I stepped away this year to do my masters but I'm sure I'll be back you know what I'm done

Speaker 2: Yeah. And when somebody's now listen to us and say, okay, this guy is really talking about some interesting stuff. And I doesn't really may take care of all these areas we are talking about today in the past. How are they able to connect you so to connect to you? ⁓ Is there anything they can get from you maybe out of these six eight sports range? something you would like to offer to the community? Is there something they can ask you, how to go in touch with you? What about these things?

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can email me directly at waterpoolstrong at gmail.com or you can follow me on Instagram at waterpoolstrong and I'm happy to share anything that I've done. I'm not gatekeeping. This isn't about me. This is about growing the sport and making sure our sport is seen in the spotlight as we all know it as one of the most profound sports in sports because we have the smartest athletes. We have the most physically talented athletes. And we have the most in shape athletes. So, you know, I want the world to see this. So coaches, athletes, you need a band program. You need anything. Reach out. I'm happy to share.

Speaker 2: You Okay, yeah, so I think this is basically also my, yeah, my feeling after the talk to you after today, so that it's really then an open minded, let's say that way open minded and really share to, to share your knowledge and to share your experiences. And it's really good, let's say to have also some other kind of discussions about water polo, yeah, so because it's really not really Yeah, so it's related to the sport water polo, but it's some different aspects, some different perspective. Yeah. And that's also for me, very interesting point, yeah. At least not only from a cultural perspective, but also to have some other aspects to think about. Yeah. in this case also very thanks from my side. for all the interesting information inside and I'm pretty sure that we I would say have another section, another talk maybe somewhere in the future, you know, so because I think we are not able to cover all my questions, so that's based on the interesting stuff you told us. And thanks for all the things you share with us here today and I hope we really able to reach more coaches and more athletes and more kids to think also about recovery and structure and not only the heavy stuff, let's say it that way.

Speaker 1: 100%. 100%. Hey, thank you so much for having me. And I really enjoyed this moment to share with you and the community.

Speaker 2: Good. That's good to hear. Good. So in this case, again, thanks for your time and have enough fun and hopefully a win in your game later today. So all the best for the game today and yeah, talk to you soon. Thank you.

Speaker 1: Awesome, thank you.